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Andrew
Denton 'Enough Rope' Interview
Andrew Denton: Rarely has
someone been so warmly embraced over many years by the Australian
public. You know her from countless successes, from 'The Man From
Snowy River' through to 'SeaChange'.
Everybody loves her, including me. Please make her welcome,
Sigrid Thornton.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Hello. (Kisses each of Thornton's cheeks) Continental.
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, so
continental!
(DENTON PRODUCES HANDKERCHIEF)
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs)
Is that for me?
Andrew Denton: Yes, that is
for you. Because Sigrid's come here tonight under great duress
because you've got a big stinker of a cold, haven't you?
Sigrid Thornton: Oh,
shocking! No duress. Delighted to be here. And congratulations on
your wonderful show.
Andrew Denton: Oh, that's
very kind.
Sigrid Thornton: I've been an
avid watcher.
Andrew Denton: The reason
I've mentioned your cold is because I'm concerned that you said the
fluids go straight to your head and that you could pass out at any
moment.
Sigrid Thornton: I could pass
out at any moment, so if I'm sitting motionless, you'll know what to
do, won't you?
Andrew Denton: That's right.
Well, absolutely. (Moves next to Thornton's chair) I'll come round
here and go, "Hello, Sigrid." (Mimics ventriloquist
speaking thru dummy) "Hello, Andrew." Nobody will ever
know.
Sigrid Thornton: That's
right.
Andrew Denton: OK, so
everybody's now just… Because Sigrid is performing under
difficulty tonight I want to hear an "Ohhh!"
AUDIENCE: Ohhhh!
Sigrid Thornton: I just hope
I can string three words together.
Andrew Denton: You just did.
You're doing better than I am tonight. Sigrid Thornton…
Sigrid Thornton: Yes?
Andrew Denton: This is your
life.
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, God!
Andrew Denton: That makes me
scared too. I always think Mike Munro's going to turn up. It's like
saying 'Macbeth' backstage. It's a bad curse. You say you don't
define yourself as an actor. What do you define yourself as?
Sigrid Thornton: Look, I
think… I read a fantastic quote, it puts me in mind of a great
quote - with the loss of the great Katharine Hepburn just recently -
there was a brilliant quote about performance work from her in the
paper that said something like, "Life's what's important. Pain
and love and birth and death. Acting's just waiting for the pies to
land." And I think that that's probably… I mean, it's a very
flip description of performance work but what she's saying, and I
suppose what I believe very genuinely, is that…it's just sort of
one element of what I hope to be a much richer life than just one
aspect. I think work's an incredibly important element of who I am
and who anybody is and it's a wonderful means of self-expression.
But the things that are, I suppose, more important to me are my
family and my friends and my inner life and my physical life, my
physical health - all of those pretty…I suppose on one level,
fairly mundane things, really.
Andrew Denton: GOOD!
Because… (Grins evilly) It's the inner life I want to get
to tonight.
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, God! OK.
Andrew Denton: Prepare for
the probing.
Sigrid Thornton: I can't
imagine what you could be going to ask me that hasn't already been
asked before.
Andrew Denton: Oh, little do
you know. Little do I know, actually. I want to talk about your mum
Merle for a start because she was Brisbane's…apparently Brisbane's
first women's libber. Now, what are your memories of your mum's
activism?
Sigrid Thornton: Well, I'd
have to say I grew up in a very politically active household and a
very…a household that embraced, you know, a really sort of active
social conscience. And my mother has definitely devoted a really big
slab of her life to women's issues and she was, you know, at the
forefront of the feminist movement really before it was called the
feminist movement. I suppose it was called women's liberation at one
point - that was kind of trendy - but I think she was even involved
with feminism before it was called women's liberation.
Andrew Denton: 'Blokes with
Breasts' in those days, it was called.
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs) Yes,
exactly. But before women's liberationists became associated with
boilersuits, there were a small but vehement group of women like my
mother who were married with children who simply wanted a better and
fairer go for women.
Andrew Denton: Your mother
was, let's be frank, she was a bloody troublemaker.
Sigrid Thornton: She was.
Andrew Denton: We've got
footage here from 1965. This is 'Four Corners' - this is your mum
and a mate chaining themselves to a public bar in Brisbane.
Reporter (archival footage, 'Four
Corners', 1965): It wasn't a very expensive protest -
the dog chain cost only 5s 6d and the padlocks were only two bob
each. But whatever the cost, the women felt, it was the principle of
the thing that mattered. If the publican served them with liquor, he
faced a fine of £10-£20.
Merle Thornton: One of the
things that appalled me when I first came to Queensland was seeing
women standing around on the footpaths waiting for their men to come
out of the bars in Queensland suburbs. I think this is an
intolerable situation, a very general one.
Andrew Denton: That's your
mum there?
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah, that's
my mother. I saw that footage for the first time as an adult only
quite recently. The most extraordinary thing is to see the same
voice and personality emerge from a much younger person, the person
that I know quite differently now. It's a really strange phenomenon.
It probably… I'm used to seeing it in myself. I'm used to seeing
footage of myself as a child, but others who are close, it's very
strange.
Andrew Denton: But it's
always weird to actually see your parent as a young sexual being.
Sigrid Thornton: Absolutely.
Andrew Denton: 'Cause the
thought of your parents having sex - I don't care who you are - is
off-putting.
Sigrid Thornton: Uh, yes,
although I think…
Andrew Denton: Not that I
think of your parents having sex…
Sigrid Thornton: I like to
think of my parents as older sexual beings. I hope they're still
jumping on each other's bones. (Laughs)
Andrew Denton: And good
evening to you, Merle.
(LAUGHTER)
After the show, alright? Now, growing up in conservative
Queensland, though, what was that like? 'Cause you had two leftie,
intellectual parents.
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah, um, I
mean, I grew up around Queensland University. They were both
teachers, lecturers, at Queensland Uni. But the memory that I have
of living in this sort of very politically active household is that
I was obviously very caught up and engaged in it and I was, you
know, marching in Vietnam moratorium demonstrations at a very young
age.
Andrew Denton: Well, not just
marching. Your entire family, including you, were arrested.
Sigrid Thornton: Yes, that's
true. I have to admit it. (Laughs)
Andrew Denton: Come clean.
What happened?
Sigrid Thornton: Well, we
were…my parents were very involved in the Vietnam moratorium
demonstrations, the whole wave of demonstrations that happened in
the course of the war and there was a great big sit-down in the
middle of Queen Street, in the centre of Brisbane, and virtually
everybody who was demonstrating sat down in the street and the
police just moved in. And it was actually quite frightening. That's
a very strong memory of my childhood. I was 13. And I do remember
being very frightened when they moved in because it was
very…obviously violent and aggressive and they weren't making a…
(Clears throat) ..they weren't playing with a soft touch. And my
father was carried off and I remember being very upset about that
and gradually they got to all of us. My mother and I were put in a
paddy wagon separately. They were sensitive enough to separate us
off from the sort of…you know, from the madding crowd and we got
put in a separate cell, you know, in the watch-house and eventually
bailed out, as happened in those days.
Andrew Denton: What was it
like in the cell?
Sigrid Thornton: Sitting
there with my mum discussing what it was like being in a cell,
basically, and, you know, looking at the graffiti on the walls and
indeed the blood splatterings on the walls and things like that.
Andrew Denton: Wow!
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: As an actress
- you would know - was it just like that in 'Prisoner'?
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs)
Exactly like that in 'Prisoner'.
Andrew Denton: Was there big
Val Lehman trying to put your head in a steam press?
Sigrid Thornton: Yes, exactly
the same. 'Prisoner' was incredibly realistic, as you know. It was a
really interesting experience. I wasn't afraid by it, actually,
surprisingly. As a child of 13, it was probably more of an adventure
than anything else with the exception of being hauled into the paddy
wagons, which was fairly violent.
Andrew Denton: How old were
you when you tried pot?
Sigrid Thornton: Uh, oooh,
probably…probably about… (Laughs) You really want to
know?
Andrew Denton: Well, it's…
Sigrid Thornton: Pretty
young. Maybe 14.
Andrew Denton: Really? And
your parents were happy about that?
Sigrid Thornton: Um, we
didn't really… Look, we discussed drug taking quite openly and I
was sensible enough to really be pretty careful about really hard
drugs. I actually had a…I must've had a kind of really serious, I
think, defence mechanism, finely tuned defence mechanism there. So I
was very fortunate, I think. I never kind of dabbled as much as… I
mean, of course, we've all had… People of our generation have all
had friends who've really sort of tipped over the other side but I
was never even tempted to do that.
Andrew Denton: What I'm
curious about, though, is you're always cast as this uptight, prissy
person, but clearly… I mean, look at you. As a heavy-drinking,
drug-taking, lawless teenager, clearly this is not you. There is a
wild Sigrid Thornton raging underneath, isn't there?
Sigrid Thornton: I suppose. I
think that…yes, I think that you're right. I mean, I think that
there are… I would like to think that I have a multifaceted
personality and this is perhaps one element that's been drawn out
into my work. I think I have a kind of tendency to be - and some
would probably think it's terribly dreary - I probably have a
tendency towards intensity in my personality, as you can probably
gather. (Laughs) Which is probably a bit of a drawback in my
performance work too - it can be, I think.
Andrew Denton: Alright, so
you're an intense person. When do you let yourself go? When have you
really gone out of your comfort zone?
Sigrid Thornton: Uh, look, I
think… Well, you know, I'm in a break from a play at the moment
which took me way out of my comfort zone. I think anyone who's
trying to sort of have, you know, a stable marriage, raise two
children, you know, somehow maintain a kind of career life as well
is constantly being shaken madly out of their comfort zone because
it's not a comfortable way of living. I mean, life isn't like that.
And so I don't think I'm… I mean, I really enjoy…in fact, I
fantasise constantly about going back to my comfort zone. I
fantasise constantly about having a normal life. I don't know what
that would be, but, you know, I love the idea of it.
Andrew Denton: Your husband,
Tom, you've been married to him for 24 years. Now, is it fair to…
Sigrid Thornton: We haven't
been married that long, we've been together that long.
Andrew Denton: Is it fair to
describe you as childhood sweethearts?
Sigrid Thornton: Well, for
me, Tom's a little bit… I mean, for me, yes, absolutely. I didn't
expect to meet the man I'd be with now at that age. So, yeah.
Andrew Denton: What do you
remember about courting, about falling in love with him?
Sigrid Thornton: We were
living together a week after we met. That's always a surprise to
people when they hear that. Because usually, it doesn't work, of
course, you know, when you take a leap like that, you know, as
suddenly as we did.
Andrew Denton: What was it
with him?
Sigrid Thornton: He was
absolutely the man for me, there's no question, and I mean, I've got
a shocking memory, but friends tell me…
Andrew Denton: It's the drugs
when you were a teenager.
Sigrid Thornton: Friends tell
me that I was ringing up, you know, like, just after we'd met and
moved in, saying, "Look, I've met the guy, you know, this is
it." And they must have thought I was daft at that age to have
decided so…in such a forthright way but I must have…it must have
been… It wasn't love at first sight. Love at second sight
probably.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, love
within seven days, which isn't bad. How do you keep - I always
wonder this when I hear about childhood…a childhood sweetheart -
how do you keep the passion strong into your adult years?
Sigrid Thornton: I think that
we are just so… It's really so difficult to describe the nature of
a long-term relationship to someone who hasn't been in one because I
think that all the sort of corny cliches about growing into the same
sort of…becoming part of the same tree are absolutely apt. I mean,
you do almost become sort of…you're sort of the same person in
some parts of your life. But I also like to think that there is a
sort of… There's another way of approaching a long-term
relationship that I like to theorise about, I suppose, which is that
you've got kind of two…you've got three paths running concurrently
and that there is, you know, the individual paths of both parties
and then there's the central path, that they must all be respected
equally. It's not a kind of…it's not a walk in the park. No-one
will tell you that a long-term relationship is that.
Andrew Denton: The thing
about being in love with somebody from such a young age - and I
don't mean to pry too far, but I am curious - how do you, as you get
older, stop yourself from wanting to stray?
Sigrid Thornton: Um, I think
that you… Well, you see, I don't think it's possible to - and I
don't think it's advisable - to live a life where you are trying to,
you know, blinker yourself or, you know, cosset yourself away in a
kind of sort of fantasy land of monogamy. That is madness to imagine
that, you know, you'll never be attracted to another person,
particularly in show business, you know? I mean, we sort of… The
writing's on the wall, really, for most people and I suppose that's
probably why you're asking me all these incredibly personal
questions about my private life because it is a bit unusual that
I've managed to stay in the one relationship. I can explore the
fantasy of, um, er, you know, of other relationships through my
work, which is really great, you know. And that's a big plus for me.
It's great. And, um…it's… but it is a fantasy, and I…and I,
you know…I'm constantly aware that it's kind of…it's just
pretending. I mean, Tom tells me at the end of the day, "You
haven't been work ing." I come home, I'm exhausted. "You
haven't been working. You've just been pretending all day." And
it really is. It's just play-acting. But I suppose I have the
advantage that I've been able to live a whole lot of other lives
through my creative work, you know. Um…but that's not the answer.
I just think it's a matter of being kind of sensible enough to
realise that you…that most, er…most other attractions are simply
that, um…and that they…that to develop the weight of the kind of
relationship that I've actually got now all over again would be just
far too much hard work, to be quite honest.
Andrew Denton: There's the
answer right there.
Sigrid Thornton: Yes, I
suppose it took me a little while to get there.
Andrew Denton: Let's talk
about beauty. In 1989, I think it was, 'Woman's Day' voted you the
most beautiful face in Australia, and then in 1990, they voted you
the most beautiful eyes. Now, clearly, you're on the slide.
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs)
Yes. Oh, dear.
Andrew Denton: Was this a
time of panic for you?
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, deep
panic. I don't… (Laughs) How does one answer that? How does
one respond?
Andrew Denton: Well, you're
always referred to as a great beauty, as indeed you are. Is it hard
to admit to being beautiful?
Sigrid Thornton: (Sighs) I
don't think of myself as beautiful, er…at all. I…I…I think
that, um…the difficulty with being a performer and being in the
public eye is that it actually manifests insecurity about your
physical appearance rather than security, anything but security
about your physical appearance. And it is. It's a constant sort of,
you know… You have to kind of constantly slap yourself around the
chops about it really and tell yourself to get a life because it's
silly to be, er…you know, it is sort of downright flip to be so
insecure about your physical appearance. But it does…I suppose it
does impart a sort of sensitivity to that, this kind of work.
Andrew Denton: Does it make
you feel more insecure about ageing?
Sigrid Thornton: I don't know
that it makes me feel more insecure about ageing than it would
another person, but it probably does because I've got to be…
There's a… I have a public side to my life. But I think everybody
worries about ageing, not just from the point of view of physical
ageing, but from the point of view of mortality, don't they? I think
that…and I think a sense of mortality is actually a really
valuable thing. I think that to actually remind oneself that you're
going to die one day is a really good idea every day.
Andrew Denton: Bit
depressing, frankly. I prefer to think, "What a great
day!"
Sigrid Thornton: The thing is
I remember Woody Allen saying that once. And I thought, "Yeah,
you're absolutely right." I do think about death every day.
Andrew Denton: Really?
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah. Not in
a morbid sense. I'm aware of my mortality every day. I don't think
it's a bad thing.
Andrew Denton: Do you always
wear clean underwear in case?
Sigrid Thornton: Just in
case.
Andrew Denton: 'Cause your
mother warned you.
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah, that's
right, although I've been told that when you wear the dirty
underwear that you might get a good date. So, really, is
it…there's some connection. Only when you've got the dirty
knickers on. That's what someone told me once. I won't tell you who.
Andrew Denton: I'm fascinated
to know and I'll certainly be trying that one out.
Sigrid Thornton: The secret
is not to be prepared.
Andrew Denton: Not to be
pre…?
Sigrid Thornton: That's the
key.
Andrew Denton: Ah, yes, it's
the unmistakable tang that brings the lover. OK, got it.
Sigrid Thornton: Remember
that one - always.
Andrew Denton: OK. You come
from a political household, as we've discussed. Is there anything in
your life now that stirs you enough for which you would go to jail,
which you did when you were 13?
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, gosh,
that's a good question. Um… (Sighs) Look, obviously, I grew
up with women's issues. I think that, um…that, er…I have a
strong sense of sort of social justice. I think that I feel very
strongly about Aboriginal issues, about ecological issues. I've
stood up to be counted most recently about industry - film industry
and television industry issues, which I also feel very strongly
about. And they're issues that I actually know quite a lot about and
I think that I can make a real sort of contribution to our…
perhaps some sort of small contribution to our sort of cultural life
through speaking up about those sorts of things. Um…so, yes, there
are, obviously, issues that I have a really genuine, um…passion,
if you like, about, yeah.
Andrew Denton: You mentioned
you put yourself out of your comfort zone with the play you're in.
That play's 'The Blue Room'?
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: Yeah. Which
you're shortly about to star in. Now, er…here in Sydney. Now, of
course, the funny thing about this play is that you're in this tiny
nude scene which goes for about two seconds. Are you amazed at the
fuss people make about it?
Sigrid Thornton: I am pretty
amazed because it's pretty…it's so, um…sort of neatly
incorporated into the scheme of things. It's an absolutely necessary
component in a play that's really about, um…sort of sexual
intimacy. Um…you couldn't possibly have 10 scenes of sexual
intimacy, or 10 explorations of sexual intimacy, without people
getting their gear off at some point.
Andrew Denton: If you were
doing my life story, you could, Sigrid, I'm sorry to say.
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs)
You obviously didn't wear the dirty knickers.
Andrew Denton: You can't be
too sure of that either, Sigrid.
Sigrid Thornton: But, anyway,
um…yeah, it is a mad, mad fuss! But, I mean, I did expect it. I
probably didn't expect QUITE the sort of furore that has emerged,
but I knew there'd be something of a fuss because, of course, the
London production created a similar sort of scandal.
Andrew Denton: What's weird
is your co-star, Marcus Graham, is naked far longer.
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, yes,
he's a complete exhibitionist.
Andrew Denton: Flapping it
about everywhere.
Sigrid Thornton: Absolutely.
Andrew Denton: Is that the
weird thing in rehearsals, like, the first time you get to,
"Alright, take it all off"? That must be a strange
experience for you.
Sigrid Thornton: Yeah, it was
kind of strange for me. It was the first totally nude stuff I'd
done. Um…Marcus wasn't - er…was absolutely familiar with the
territory. So it was kind of good that he was. I wasn't deeply
nervous. I really wasn't. But Marcus was completely at ease. And
that enabled me to feel much more comfortable, and, of course, by
the time you've been performing for… You know, really, it's a very
fast show, and there are a lot of…there are 10 quick changes, and
so there is absolutely no room for modesty in that show at all, I
can tell you.
Andrew Denton: When you look
at Marcus now, do you mentally dress him?
Sigrid Thornton: (Laughs)
That's a very good question. I love that one! I'll have to share
that with him. Um… N…yes, I suppose. Yes, I'd love to see…
Sometimes, I'm just, "Get your gear on, for God's sake,
exhibitionist!" And it is just a suit. It's not a real sixpack.
He just straps that on.
Andrew Denton: Oh, really?
Sigrid Thornton: It's not
real.
Andrew Denton: Can I get one?
Sigrid Thornton: I'll see if
I can organise it. He has a special tailor in Italy.
Andrew Denton: I want you to
skip forward now to 20 years. You and Tom. The kids have grown up.
They've gone away.
Sigrid Thornton: Yes.
Andrew Denton: What are you
going to be…?
Sigrid Thornton: Oh, no!
Tragic thought!
Andrew Denton: Not gone
forever. Just gone.
Sigrid Thornton: Tragic!
Andrew Denton: What are you
and Tom going to be doing? Where are you going to end up?
Sigrid Thornton: That's a
very difficult question to answer.
Andrew Denton: Do you have an
image of a place where you're walking hand in hand? Like 'Sound of
Music' perhaps?
Sigrid Thornton: Um, no! I
don't actually have an image of… Certainly not!
Andrew Denton: No, well, not
'The Sound of Music'.
Sigrid Thornton: Um, but…
No, I don't. I suppose I've so trained my whole sort of sensibility
towards not having a particular expectation of the future because of
the kind of nature of my work, that I haven't really got a sort of
20-year plan.
Andrew Denton: You don't have
a romantic picture?
Sigrid Thornton: But I
certainly would have to say that - and you asked about a long-term
relationship earlier - I do have a sense of, uh…it being very nice
to be old with this other person and to be grey-haired and I feel
perfectly comfortable about that. That doesn't frighten me at all.
Andrew Denton: I think you'd
be lovely to be old with. Sigrid Thornton, thank you very much.
Sigrid Thornton: Thank you.
Andrew Denton: Thanks. And
you didn't sniffle even once!
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